My First Philosophical Debate V

Yeah, sorry it took so long to put it together.

From: Justin
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:30 PM

have i read the Qu’ran? nope. not a single page. but it doesn’t matter, it’s one religion among many. i’m trying to get you to see how it feels when you try to push a religion on someone (and expect them to never stop investigating until they give in to the religion).

so i’m still a Christian? how convenient for you. then i guess i’ve fulfilled my duty. i guess you don’t have to read the Qu’ran after all. *glares* you tried to trick me just now, huh.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:43 PM

You think I tricked you? No indeed. I was simply trying to make a point that you can claim to have been something when in reality you were not. Or you can claim to be something when you are not.

You saying that it doesnt mater whether you have read the Qu’ran can mean the same for me then. Why do I have to read the Qu’ran and try to convert? I believe the bible is the truth, Jesus is the way. bottom line. therefore based on your reasoning, I myself do not need to read the Q’ran either. And I am telling you that Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship (call it bs if you desire). But I do not live my walk with Jesus Christ as though I were bound in chains and living under a cloud of judgment,. I live with joy and hope. I wake up every day with excitement about what God has planned for me that day. Believing in Him gives me a hope for the future. that life truly has meaning and that the truth is NOTrelative.

And I have not tried to push Christianity on you. Nor was I trying to offend or make you feel inferior because you choose to be a relativist (whatever that means). I was trying to give you the reasons or evidenses as to why I have chosen to remain a Christian.

i once admired you Justin in many many ways. I am sad to have been let down. :’-(

From: Justin
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:57 PM

i’m sorry i let you down. but no one ever said that the truth (whatever it is) HAD to feel good. i feel let down by the church. i think i have extraordinarily good reasons NOT to be a Christian.

i’ve spent my whole life investigating the Bible, trying to find an answer; hope; promises; “the bright side of things”…………….. it’s a joke.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 17, 2007 12:06 AM

And no you are right, I do not understand what that is like But hear me out when I say that just because bad things happen to us that that means the bible is a joke or that God is not real or that he does not care. Take for instance the story of Job ( i am sure you are familiar). He loved God, served God, trusted God, followed God. But what happened? God allowed Satan to kill off his kids and servants, inflict him with boils and make him the laughingstock of his friends. You might say Where is God in all of this? why would he allow this to happen?
Justin, lad there are many reasons for this. One being of course because we sin-pure and simple. two being, God wants to test our faith. He is not the CAUSER of our sufferings, but he allows them to take place to help us grow stronger to teach us. to help grow wiser. If bad things did not happen how would be learn. how would we know how to deal with them. And sometimes he uses people with these kinds of problems to show us things. I know a kid with a rare disease (only 1 in 3 people in the world have it) he is 16 years old and he has the body size of a two year old. Not kidding. But yet he is a strong Christian, loves to sing, and got to meet The president of the United States. I dont say this to try to make the situation with your brother seem like it isnt a big deal or that it is a crisis, but I say it in love and care for you as a person.
Maybe the church you went to never had the answer you sought. But that doesnt mean that the entire body of christ (that being the church) does not. or does not offer open arms to you when you need it most.

From: Justin
Date: Apr 17, 2007 12:15 AM

i’ve heard this before, and i’d be a fool to pass over the story of Job. i promise, i already know it. i understand the underlying message too.
it’s still bullshit though (pardon the language). God, if he is real, can do whatever the hell he wants to teach me something, EXCEPT WHEN IT’S AT SOMEONE ELSE’S EXPENSE.
by the way, Mrs. Gordon had to correct me once about the nature of God, apparently. she told me it says in the New Testament (somewhere) that God does NOT test our faith.

no, no, i assure you, the church i went to was a very good one (despite my current stance), i will give it that. they tought us to be intellectuals.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 17, 2007 12:22 AM

Justin, its really hard knowing what to say to you. I know you are hurt and angry and resentful, and I wish I could say I have all the answers. But I dont. I am human and I only know so much (as do you) But I can say a few things more. My brother was diagnosed with bipolar last summer. I remember how weird he started acting, like he was doing meth or something. It was so weird how we could never understand what he was talking about and he would have delusions. I could point the finger at God and say: “Why did you do this to Winston?!!!” or I could say, God has a plan and a purpose. He will use this in a beatiful way despite how horrific it may seem. its funny that you said “God can do whatever the hell he wants.” thats kind of an oxymoron. God and hell ya know? lol
I may have phrased the “God testing our faith part.” God himself does not test our faith, but yet He allows certain obstacles to come our way to test it, if that makes sense. Good old Mrs. Gordon. she was crazy. I think she threw a stapler at a kid one time..

From: Justin
Date: Apr 17, 2007 12:30 AM
Flag as Spam or Report Abuse [ ? ]
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: THE GOD DEBATE- Real or not?
Body: she totally did. talk about evidence. i was there when it happened. she threw it at Phillip George, but he ducked and it ended up hitting Ashley Perez. if she had ducked, it would have hit ME because i sat right behind her.

sorry about your brother.
i don’t blame God for [how things are].
thanks for the talk. i’ve got to go though. i need to study, and eat, and etc.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 17, 2007 5:47 PM

the wind is a good example of the existence of God. (you have probably heard this before) Can you see wind? nope. But you see what the wind does and causes. Same story with God. How can you explain why people go to third world countries to preach the gospel? How can you figure out people such as Billy Grahamn and the rest? What could be motivating them to do as they do? What do they have to gain from what they do? If Christianity is real, why dont people just stop with merely “believing in God”? My only answer is the conviction of the holy spirit.

From: Justin
Date: Apr 17, 2007 7:02 PM

the wind is invisible, yes. but the wind DOES have extention. the elves do not (they are totally spiritual) you can feel the wind with your face if it blows on you. the elves are not merely invisible. they cannot be sensed by any physical means (which the wind can).

the wind is a horrible example of the existance of God. sorry.
how do i explain why people [seemingly] selflessly go and preach when they don’t have to? simple: they’re scared that their life has no meaning, and they want to fill that void with ideas of promises of hope, blessings, and a life after death. people lie to themselves more often than they think. they repress their own fears (which are the REAL driving force) and call it the Holy Spirit to make themselves feel as if they’re not crazy.
they feel the need to preach to other people because of some bastardized sympathy they have; they instill their own fears onto other people (though it seems like most people have the same ultimate fears anyway.)

My First Philosophical Debate IV

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 7:40 PM

There was this article in newsweek about a debate between Rick Warren (pastor of Saddle back church in so cal) and Sam Harris, a devout atheist.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17889148/site/newsweek/

basically, if Christians are wrong, we lose nothing. If atheists are wrong well, they lose everything! What I find peculiar is that Christianity is picked on above all religions. Why might this be? Its because Christianity is the ONLY religion to base everything on fatih and having a relationship with JEsus Christ. In a way this makes Christianity NOT a religion. Buddism, Islam, hinduism, and yes even Judaism base their beliefs on doing works to gain entrance into heaven. Not so with christianity. it is a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ- the mediator on our behalf. If you are going to pick on Christianity, you need to pick on other religions too otherwise your argument is very biased.

From: Mystery Man
Date: Apr 16, 2007 9:41 PM

its quite an egocentric claim to say that Christianity gets picked on the most. it probably seems like it to you only because you ARE a Christian, and you probably pay absolutely no attention to when other religions get picked on. why? because it doesn’t concern you when the other religions get picked on.

but let us assume that Christianity does get picked on the most. why then? it is NOT because “Christianity is the ONLY religion to base everything on fatih and having a relationship with JEsus Christ.” (which may not be true by the way) it is because Christianity is the single largest religion is history, and is highly influential. it seems only logical that the FAME of a religion would rouse the most attention (i.e. either acceptance or criticism).

this is not a war of gains and losses, as you make it seem (that Christians have nothing to lose, and that atheists have everything to lose). it is about truth, and the safety of humanity. (Christianity has been responsible for many pointless deaths. Salem Witch trials anyone???)

i, Mystery Man, only want the truth. i am not interested in defeating you as a Christian. however, if the truth (whatever it is) does not include Christianity, then so be it!

by the way, i’m not an atheist. i’m just not a proponant of Christianity. not anymore.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:19 PM

If you want the truth then why not seek the truth more? do not limit yourself to just what atheists and relativists, and anti-semantics, etc think. I challenge you to go on a hunt to seek out the bible more. To read through books regarding christianity (not just the anti-christian side, but both sides, from all view points). I’m not saying to embrace the bible, but dont 100% close yourself off to it. Read the bible and uncover the truth for yourself. Believe me I doubted for awhile myself, but I have spoken with many professors, pastors, and what not and any thing you try to throw at me to disprove the existence of God and that the bible is indeed “breathed by his spirit” I can show you how it is actually true.

Good luck on your journey to seek the truth!
I will leave this verse with you…

“Jesus said, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father, except through me.” John 14:6

From: Mystery Man
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:38 PM

you challenge me? you talk as if i’ve never been to church before. i’ve been a Christian since i was 6 years old. i’ve studied the hell out of the Bible. i was one of the smartest Christians i ever knew. i wanted to be a pastor. is that good enough a chance?

i challenge YOU to chuck the Bible and seek out Islam. i’ll wager that you’ve not read the Koran cover to cover. do you not want to? why not? give it a chance (as you tell me to give the Bible a chance). do you think Islam is just about terrorism and such? give IT a chance.

(no, i’m not a Muslim. but that is exactly what your proposal sounds like to me. how does it feel?)

For you Corinne, (even though i’ve already intensely studied the Bible for 13+ years) i will give it a “chance” if you are willing to read the Koran cover to cover, and spend time investigating what it’s like to be a Muslim… deal?

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:48 PM

Did you ever hear the saying that “You can know something without really knowing it?”. For years you have seen the bible in a certain light and now hear you are 20 years old and it seems dead to you, old, unreal, false, et cetera. Thats because to you IT ISdead. its the same old same old. How about seeking it out in a different way? a new light?
I will take you up on that offer Justin Radak. being that I want to go into christian ministry I need to learn about other religions any way if I am to have more infallible claims about what I believe to be the absolute truth. I will go out this week sometime and get a copy of the Qu’ran (that is how its actually spelled BTW)

From: Mystery Man
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:58 PM
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: THE GOD DEBATE- Real or not?

Body: woah, woah, woah. excuse me? “being that I want to go into CHRISTIAN ministry…”? that pretty much means you’re not willing to convert to Islam. which means you’re not going to take the Qu’ran to heart. i need you to be on the ball here Corinne…

part of this deal is that i don’t want you to stop reading the Qu’ran until you decide to convert to Islam. that’s also part of the deal (because i know you don’t want me to stop reading the Bible until i become a Christian again). right?

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:21 PM

personally I beleive that if you truly were a christian then you can’t lose your salvation or “go back to being a christian.” that being true only IF you truly were a Christian.

have you yourself actually read the Qu’ran for you to be asking me to do this? Are you only looking at Christianity and how it isnt true or are you truly looking at EVERYTHING else? Are you asking me to convert When I believe that the bible is the inspired word of God and that all evidence points to it being the sole truth? I am willing to investigate, reasearch, examine, and read the Qu’ran and discover its meaning, but as far as converting, all evidence that I find would have to prove that it is true and right now I do not believe that that will be true. But, okay, to humor you, so I might be wrong. We shall see, wont we?

My First Philosophical Debate III

From: Mystery Man
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:04 PM

answers:

1- never
2- not a single person. nope.
3- i wouldn’t know.
4- never ever sensed them before in my life. never.

well, so far you’ve only shown that the elves cannot be proven to exist. but you have yet to DISprove them.

by the way, God (the Biblical one. or ANY one for that matter) has yet to be proven. on the other hand, i’m totally willing to admit (as i always have bee) that God cannot be DISproven either. there is no way to DISprove the existence of God. then again, there is no way to disprove ANY metaphysical theory.

and, btw $5 words? that’s just how i talk… they’re free for me.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:24 PM

In regards to my questions concering the elves, all of those questions are a YES when it comes to God or Jesus.

1- I have seen evidence of God
2- there are people I have talked to who ahve seen the evidence of god
3- history 6,000 years or more has proven the existence of God as well as Christ
4-people, including me have sensed the presence of God.

From: Mystery
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:38 PM

no offence, but your answers only prove that you have delusions of certain spirituality.

you can’t prove God. and you can’t DISprove God. it’s a lose-lose situation.

people used to think volcanoes were evidence of God. then we figured out that it was just the earth scraping against itself.

1) you’ve seen evidence of God? what is it?

2) you’ve talked to people who’ve claimed to see evidence of God? how do you know they’re not lying? and again, what is the evidence?

3) History has proven the existence of a man who was Jesus, but not that he was anything more than a man (and certainly not that he is God.) again, what is the evidence you hint at?

4) how have you sensed the presence of God? through signs? wind? a comforting presence at your bedside? a voice? (for this answer especially) what is the evidence?

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 11:53 PM

Mystery Man-

there are some things you just have to have faith to believe in. Sometimes you just have to believe. In my heart of hearts, in all that I have seen, and heard I believe in “God the father, almighty maker of heaven, maker of earth and in jesus Christ his only begotten son…” Whether or not you choose to believe in the existence of God, or that Jesus Christ came, died, was buried, and rose again, its your choice. Personally, I would rather have my relationship with Christ and live my life with a PURPOSE than continue wandering aimlessly as you are doing apprently, searching for meaning and truth in all sorts of obscure places and coming up with no absolute answer.

as far as volcanoes, how about the fact that God allowed the earth to scrape against itself (although this isnt exactly how volcanoes erupt, but i am not going to get into a debate about volcanoes next )

From: Mystery man

Date: Apr 17, 2007 12:02 AM
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Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: picking favorite Bible verses…
Body: i knew it would come to that. faith……. well, if it’s faith, then it’s not knowledge. it’s just faith; a belief.

i could very well say the same thing about the elves. you just have to have faith. (by the way, the elves caused the volcanoes to erupt… LOL)

speaking of purpose, i used to say the same thing you did. that i’d rather have a purpose than walk around without one. i always used to shudder at the thought of going it alone. BUT….. i actually like the idea now that i’m faced with it. because, now i’m not bound to some kind of fate. i can make my own d*** purpose in life, and it will be totally authentic and original.

My First Philosophical Debate II

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:12 PM

Not wanting this to get ugly or anything but ….

I am not saying that only homosexuals get STD’s. Nor am I saying that looking at Roman 1:27-28 in that way is the only way of interpreting that verse. It could also mean that the penalty for their perversion is that they keep doing those sexual practices.
what makes you believe that homosexual practices are safe and clean? And how do you know that your dogs or any animal is engaging in such behaviors?.any sexual practice wherether homosexual or heterosexual is an abomination and against how we were designed to be. Now if someone feels they are “gay” or what not but yet does not engage in sexual practices, well that is another story. There are people who truly believe they are gay for whatever reason (whether its a fetish or disease of the mind)- whether it is true or not I do not know, but… God created man and woman. He created them different for a reason. To complement one another and to come together for the purpose of procreation. and yes for love and companionship as well. Of course I am not saying oral sex is wrong as long as it is done within the BOUNDs of marriage between ONE man and ONE woman.
If you say that beastiphilia and pediphilia are diseases of the mind but homosexuality is not then that is a contradiction right there. All three are not only immoral, but unnatural. Just because you have a fetish to do something does not make it right. you could use this example to justify almost naything you want. “I have a fetish to rob a bank” or “I have a fetish to kill someone.” WE all have urges, desires, et cetera. But some of them need to be restrained becasue of the consequences that result from them.
Humans are prone to sin and distort the natural order. And they can use any “evidence” to either justify or prove whatever it is they want. As I was telling Steve, evidence can be false, theories can be disproven. All relate to science. One think you cant disprove is the the truth of the bible or the existence of God. You cant see God, and you were not there during the times when the bible was written. So how can you disprove it? Its like trying to disprove history!! Sure maybe archaelogical discoveries found no trace of this or that, blah blah blah. does that mean that what was wrriten down to have happened did not happen? of course not!! You can disprove evidence, hypotheses, theories, et cetera. But you cannot disprove history OR faith.

From: Mystery Man
Apr 16, 2007 10:30 PM
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: picking favorite Bible verses…
Body: what evidence do i have that my dogs try to have sex with each other? i’ve seen it happen on several occasions. is that good enough evidence? should i record it for you (which i will not do btw).

i’ve already said that you cannot DISprove God. i have no argument against that. on the other hand, you cannot DISprove my idea about invisible, non-extended fish that want us to go to Mars.

can you DISprove my theory about the elves?

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:37 PM

All right then. I will humor you. Give me a basis to believe your idea about fish or elves. (ie in my case, the BIBLE) and I can ask you any question I want and you will have the answer to every question or be able to FIND the answer or find someone who does have the answer. If you can do that for me. Let me know.
there are many people who claim to have SEEN things happen. does that mean they did? who knows right? it could be they THINK they saw it that way or maybe they WANTED to see it that way. your evidence and theories can be disproven.

*BTW, I did not want this to be a war or out of taste debate. I am totally cool with debating with you as long as it is cordial.*

From: Mystery Man

Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:46 PM
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: picking favorite Bible verses…
Body: okay then, disprove this:

(btw, this is just the devil’s advocate):

there are elves that exist metaphysically. they are non-extended substances, which means that they cannot be seen or sensed at all by any physical means. in fact, they are spiritual elves. they do not typically interact with human beings. one day they will take us to Mars in a non-extended space ship.

now… i cannot prove this at all. but can you DISprove this? i will declare YOU God if you can.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:56 PM

All right, allright. I see what you are trying to do here. I will ask you some questions (totally rhetorical ones)
1- have you seen evidences that these elves exist?
2- Have you talked to those who have also seen evidences for the existence of them?
3- Has history 6,000 years or more (as in the case of the bible) proven that these elves exists, OR that there were people who believed they did?
4-have you sensed the presence of this ‘metaphysical beings’ (as christians do with God and the holy spirit?)

Its not enough to say you just believe in something. There are questions to be asked, and studies to be done. You could say you believe in anything (such as rainbow ponies on magical clouds, but you need sources to back you up. History proves the existence of God, people prove the existance of God, nature in of itself proves God. faith proves God. et cetera.

by the way, use of $5 words does not necessarily mean you know what you are talking about.

My First Philosophical Debate I

Date: Apr 16, 2007 1:32 AM
Subject: Issues regarding Pen and Teller on the Bible
From: Corinne McFee

****Regarding the red sea issue… Scientists have actually found chariot wheels on the floor of the red sea.****** Also regarding the morals in the old testament. Jesus Christ came and did away with all the old rules such as resting on the sabbath, stoning children, et cetera. That was before Christ (BC). AND regarding the long hair issue for men in the new testament. That was not necessarily a commandment. it was more of a culture issue. Back then for men to have long hair was not appropriate. Paul was simply trying to point that out. ********

Hmm, I am not sure I would hold Penn and Teller as valuable sources for the truth about the bible. Honestly, I believe that you have to dig deeper than just what we see on the surface and more than what our brains can possibly comprehend. There is no way on this planet that we will ever be able to comprehend the mystery of God and I believe God intended it to be that way. He created us with a choice: to have faith and just believe, or try to figure it out ourselves and go another way.
Think of it this way, you can look at a computer and say: “wow! look at this complex peice of machinery. It does so many things, blah blah blah.” and you can take it apart and look at it in depth. And when you are finished you can come to either two conclusions: one, “i believe that somewhere on this earth, a creator built this computer and designed it to function a certain way” or you can say “this computer came from some microscopic ooze billions of years ago and its now what it is.” I know I am exaggerating, but this is exactly what people do with the bible. They either cant possibly believe that a creator designed us and can do more than we can comprehend. Its simply ludicris I tell you!

From: Mystery Man*
Date: Apr 16, 2007 1:37 AM
Subject: RE: RE: picking favorite Bible verses…
Well, Penn and Teller are more or less just the presenters of the information. the actual show (Penn and Teller: Bullshit) is a half hour long each episode. they are in fact some of the most authentic presenters of information i’ve ever seen. they interview the experts (on both sides) and they don’t stop when they just hear what they want.

speaking of which, it doesn’t take an expert to realize that Christians pick and choose which verses they want to apply to daily life. if you’re against homosexuality, then you ought to be in favor of executing people who work on the sabbath and executing disobedient children (all are Biblical commandments). are you a Biblical absolutist or a relativist? if you say God is infallable, then you must be an absolutist. in which case you ought to be executing people who work on the sabbath and killing disobedient children.

you’re right about never being able to understand the mystery of God. because God (the idea of God) can neither be proven nor disproven. just like my idea (which i always use) that invisible fish are building space-ships to take us to Mars, can neither be proven NOR disproven either. you can’t disprove my fish idea because they are invisible and non-extended substances. (by the way, this is why metaphysics is useless).

saying a computer came from microscopic ooze billions of years ago makes more sense. the reason being, we can actually investigate that. we cannot investigate metaphysical deductions (e.g. God) and come to any experiential conclusions, because the experiential and the metaphysical have no connection at all. all we can do, in relation to “the nature of God” is deduce and deduce, and guess and guess…….. what concerns me (and this is my main point) is th

i’ll admit it. the first time i saw that episode of P&T: Bullshit, i was pissed. i was like “i’m sure they’re wrong….. somehow!” but as time moved forward, i began to realize they were right.

From: Corinne
Date: Apr 16, 2007 10:41 AM

RE: RE: RE: picking favorite Bible verses…

Some of what you said I have to think about a bit more and do some more theoretical study, but what I will explain what i do know.

As far as picking and choosing verses, who is to say that just because a lot of Christians do that, that it makes it right? A lot of Christians sleep with one another before they are married. this is not right. A lot of christians go out and get drunk. this isnt right either. No one is perfect. Romans 3;23 “For we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”

If take a look at the Old testament versus the new testament you can see that they are very different in nature.
In the new testament Christ offers forgivness rather than judgment for sins. He himself works on the sabbath (very against the OT). There is a significant difference between working on the sabbath and homosexuality and stoning children. There is a moral issue to be dealt with. You also have to understand the context of the culture as well and what was acceptable in THAT culture. In the earlier BC, often times disobedient children would rise up against their parents and often kill or conquer them. Stoning them would mean protecting the family, etc. The coming of Christ did away with this as well. He offers the ‘cheek analogy’ in this instance.
As far as homosexuality goes, it is more than just a matter of picking and choosing what you want to believe. It goes against nature, the way we were DESIGNED TO BE. Suffice it say that I believe homosexuality is an actual disease of the mind, not an alternative lifestyle. Its a distortion of the natural way of things. Romans 1:26-28 “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way, the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men commited indecent acts with other men and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.” the last part of that verse makes sense in a way because you see STD’s and AIDS due to acts such as these. So would you say that having sex with animals is also an “alternative lifestyle” and should be acceptable in society?

From: Mystery Man
Date: Apr 16, 2007 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: RE: RE: RE: picking favorite Bible verses…
so… it makes sense to be anti homosexuality because of STD issues? have you forgotten that straight people get STDs too? are you saying that only gay people get STDs?

i am a relativist. i do not believe that homosexuality is a disease. i believe it is a fetish. some people like feet. some people like to have sex while eating. some people like to beat each other during sex. some people love to curse during sex. some people like to have sex with the same gender. some people like to have sex with animals, children etc.

because i am a relativist, it grants me to use reason to decide which is dangerous or not. homosexuality is not wrong (as long as the parties involved are consenting.) i think that pediphilia is wrongER (and i do not advocate it much), because child minds are much less developed and cannot consent as properly as adults can. sex with animals is just weird (non intelligent decision, i know, but i don’t care.)

yes, i think having sex with animals is an alternative sex-fetish (not necessarily a lifestyle), but i never said it should be accepted.
the reason i think homosexuality should be accepted (as long as the parties are consenting) because it is not dangerous. (like i said, even straight people get AIDS and other STDs. don’t ever forget that.)

homosexuality a disruption of the natural order? against the way we were designed??? come on, give me a break. animals do homosexual things all the time. i know that my dogs tried to hump each other all the time, and they were both female. albeit, it was a matter of dominance, but it was homosexual nevertheless.

i guess the question now is: were human beings “designed” differently than other mammals?

bottom line. homosexuality (exclusive from beastiality and pediphilia) is NOT a mental disease (which by the way is one of the most rediculous things i’ve ever heard, not to mention totally unfair.) it’s just a fetish, just like oral sex, and hand/finger pleasure between straight couples.

would you say that liking oral sex between a straight, married couple is a mental disease? because, biologically speaking, the tongue is not “designed” to lick the genitals (male or female). is it then wrong to pleasure your spouse with your hand? again, biologically speaking, the hand is not designed for procreation either…….

P.S. just to make it perfectly clear, i am NOT gay.

*actual name not revealed

My First Philosophical Debate

It began at about 1 am on April 16, 2007. I read a blog posted by one of my old classmates. He had posted a video called: Pen and Teller- Bullshit.” The video was basically a slam against Christians and all they believe in. Immediatley after watching the video, I sent a reply to this classmate of mine, expressing my firm belief against the video. Little did I know it would lead to an explosive debate that would last for over a week. Before my discussion with this classmate, I had barely any knowledge of philosophy. You will probably see that throughout the course of the debate, my arguments for faith begin to get swallowed up in the complexity of modern philosophy.